Apr 14, 1995 Interview: ’The streets are yours’
By David Makovsky
In a pre-Pessah interview with The Jerusalem Post, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin said that he was pleased that the Clinton administration was not trying to impose its own proposals on how to break the Syrian-Israeli impasse.
The prime minister said a Palestinian state would not be a good idea "at this stage,‘ adding that he would like to see ’a Palestinian entity in most of the areas of the West Bank."
Following are excerpts from his interview.
What do you think about those Labor MKs who called on you this week to have the IDF reenter Gaza to track down Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists?
They don’t know enough about the problems. They don’t know what we are engaged in. I am proud that I took {the IDF} out of the Gaza streets and the alleys of Shati, Jabalya and Nuseirat, Bureij, Khan Yunis, Deir el-Balah and Rafiah.
Can the July 1 Israel-PLO mutually agreed-upon deadline to expand Palestinian autonomy be met, despite the killings this week?
We are aiming for July to reach an agreement about the implementation of Phase Two of the DOP {Oslo Declaration of Principles} vis-a-vis the West Bank. But we have made it clear that the implementation is dependent on {PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat} fulfilling his commitments in a much more effective way … in coping with this kind of terrorism which is carried {out} against us by fanatic religious, Islamic terror groups.
They {the Moslem fundamentalists} are well organized. They have got their own fanatically religious clergy. They have public support and they are determined, they are tough. To fight them, it’s much more difficult than we experienced in the past.
How do you assess what Arafat has done to go after Islamic militants following this week’s attack?
It is not enough … {He must do} it with determination, strength and {as part of a} continuous {effort}. What we ask him is: one, to make sure that there is only one armed law-enforcement {body}; two, {to ensure that} others will not carry arms, except individuals who will be given permission; three, {to} search in an effective way after those who {either} instigate, … organize, protect {or} carry out the terror; to take them out of the area either by courts or administrative detention.
Since the terrible accident of the {Dizengoff} bus in Tel Aviv last October, we detained 2,700 in the West Bank for interrogation, administrative detention. If he {Arafat} does that, the future will be good.
Are you thinking about establishing a Palestinian state in Gaza even in the interim period as a way of avoiding expanding autonomy to the rest of the territories?
If it would be possible, I don’t see any problem in it. I don’t believe that any Palestinian will accept it … They {Palestinians} say to us: "You signed the DOP, so implement it."
You say you oppose a larger Palestinian state. Why?
I would like to see next to Israel a Palestinian entity in most of the areas of the West Bank … most of Gaza, not a return to the pre-Six Day War lines. First and foremost, a united Jerusalem under Israeli sovereignty … In the long run I would like to see some sort of working together as a system, Jordan, Israel as a state, Palestine as an entity, less than a state.
And a Palestinian state?
I don’t believe, at this stage, it would be a good idea.
How do you rationalize telling mothers of IDF soldiers why their sons need to protect isolated settlements in Gaza during the interim period when these settlements don’t enhance security nor are they part of borders that you see are needed for Israel?
I’m not against uprooting of settlements in a context of a permanent agreement.
Beginning with January 1, 1994, 21 Israelis got killed in the Gaza Strip: 17 were uniformed soldiers, border police, police, {and} four {were} civilians. None of them {were} settlers in this area, which means that for the protection of the settlers, these soldiers got killed.
{It} might be by coincidence that one of the settlers was on the bus, but basically the bus {that was attacked} on Sunday morning {carried} mainly soldiers. And it creates a problem. The possibility of ending the life of {a} settlement is part of the permanent solution.
Are you against the US offering its own proposal to break the impasse between Israel and Syria?
I am thankful and grateful that both President {Bill} Clinton and Secretary {of State Warren} Christopher have not tried to come up with an American proposal.
I don’t think it would be advisable. I am not supporting it. They have to go to try to convince them {Syria} {and} us, but by no means to come up with an American paper. For me, it would be seen as an imposition.
Can you explain the impasse on the equality of security arrangements?
The problem today in discussions on the security arrangements is that {Syrian President Hafez Assad} wants formulations in which he demands equality, including geography {for limited-forces zones on each side of the Golan}. This is something that I cannot agree to.
Is it realistic to believe that you can have talks about the standing army in Syria?
I believe that this has to be an approach, not as part of the agreement, because no one would like for someone else to decide for him the size of his armed forces. I wouldn’t like the Syrians to decide that for me.
So this can only be worked out regionally?
Or {by} tacit understandings.
What can be done to elevate the level of debate in this country?
I believe it is related to two developments. One is ratings in the media. Look at the way and what words the media uses to describe the situation. It {news} has become a business, and the best-serving item is blood or something that looks terrible or sensational.
When one student in a Jerusalem school was knifed, not killed, about two years ago, I compared the size of the headline to the size of the one announcing the outbreak of the Six Day War, and it was three times bigger.
Look at the television, the papers, the color pictures — they show every drop of blood of Israeli victims. Second, the {election} primary process is a way for {politicians} to become known. This changes the level of the political debate in Israel, and it involves many factors and individuals. I don’t know the solution.
Hag Sameah, Mr. Prime Minister.
I wish all the people of Israel a happy Pessah. We should remember how long it took us to go from slavery to freedom. Also, it’s a festival of spring. Spring means hope.
Let’s speak through our tradition and look forward to a better future.
Iran News
